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	<title>Comments on: The Ultimate Question</title>
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		<title>By: Rob King</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-965</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great points, Don.

Yes, the difference in consciousness and intelligence are degrees of magnitude, as you say. As a longtime pet owner of everything from barely sentient salamanders to quite intelligent dogs, I know what you mean. I definitely get the sense that there is a self-aware creature looking back at me when I look in a dog&#039;s eyes.

Perhaps I am using the word &quot;miracle&quot; too frivolously. Perhaps the word &quot;marvel&quot; fits better. Consciousness is at least marvelous, if not miraculous.

And, as you suggest, perhaps the true miracles of consciousness await as we develop higher forms of it, maybe not in ourselves but in our machines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points, Don.</p>
<p>Yes, the difference in consciousness and intelligence are degrees of magnitude, as you say. As a longtime pet owner of everything from barely sentient salamanders to quite intelligent dogs, I know what you mean. I definitely get the sense that there is a self-aware creature looking back at me when I look in a dog&#8217;s eyes.</p>
<p>Perhaps I am using the word &#8220;miracle&#8221; too frivolously. Perhaps the word &#8220;marvel&#8221; fits better. Consciousness is at least marvelous, if not miraculous.</p>
<p>And, as you suggest, perhaps the true miracles of consciousness await as we develop higher forms of it, maybe not in ourselves but in our machines.</p>
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		<title>By: Don One World</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-964</link>
		<dc:creator>Don One World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I may differ with you on how much a miracle consciousness is Rob.  I think it is an emergent quality of life and like intelligence, it varies by degree.  The problem is that the degree of consciousness between various forms of life differs by orders of magnitude.  We are used to thinking of things being 2 times or 3 times that of something else, but like quantum to cosmic scales, we need to think orders of magnitude when we think of consciousness which is correlated to what we perceive as intelligence.   I have noticed that even a squirrel seems very aware of itself in relation to other squirrels -- but perhaps it is not thinking about how it could loose some weight and be more attractive if it could only eat less nuts.  Self-consciousness may be a higher form of consciousness, but perhaps there even higher forms which we have yet to attain.  For me, consciousness is a miracle only in that it is an attribute of life which does seem miraculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may differ with you on how much a miracle consciousness is Rob.  I think it is an emergent quality of life and like intelligence, it varies by degree.  The problem is that the degree of consciousness between various forms of life differs by orders of magnitude.  We are used to thinking of things being 2 times or 3 times that of something else, but like quantum to cosmic scales, we need to think orders of magnitude when we think of consciousness which is correlated to what we perceive as intelligence.   I have noticed that even a squirrel seems very aware of itself in relation to other squirrels &#8212; but perhaps it is not thinking about how it could loose some weight and be more attractive if it could only eat less nuts.  Self-consciousness may be a higher form of consciousness, but perhaps there even higher forms which we have yet to attain.  For me, consciousness is a miracle only in that it is an attribute of life which does seem miraculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrod</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-929</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 03:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>All good points Rob, and the thought that &quot;what we do haunts or rewards the people we leave behind&quot; certainly rings true regardless of whatever afterlife may await us.  Thanks again for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good points Rob, and the thought that &#8220;what we do haunts or rewards the people we leave behind&#8221; certainly rings true regardless of whatever afterlife may await us.  Thanks again for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob King</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nice point, Jarrod!

Somehow, Shakespeare constantly surfaces with this particular issue--&quot;what dreams may come.&quot;

Or I think of &quot;To die, to sleep, perchance to dream--ah, there&#039;s the rub.&quot; When Hamlet says these words, he is contemplating suicide and is equating dying with sleeping--loss of consciousness. But then, what Hamlet fears is &quot;perchance to dream.&quot; There&#039;s the rub. What if his actions on earth will haunt him throughout eternity?

At this point, I don&#039;t think that what we do haunts us or rewards us throughout eternity. What we do haunts or rewards the people we leave behind. That&#039;s an even greater responsibility. Our virtues and our sins reward or punish not one person but hundreds or thousands.

If the suicide bombers understood this, they would not be thinking of their seventy-two virgins. They would be wondering whether they were leaving Islam in a better state than they found it.

My great grandfather abandoned my grandfather when he was three. My grandfather was rasied by his maternal grandmother. He, then, married a dominant wife, and his son did, and I did--which means that what my great grandfather did in 1905 is still resonating to the third or fourth generation. His sin--abandoning his family--was not paid out by Satan in hell. It was paid out and continues to be paid out in the flesh and consciousness of all the creatures that have descended from him.

There&#039;s a moment in Lord of the Rings when Frodo and Sam are marching into Mordor, facing certain death, and they console themselves thinking of the songs and stories that others will create to commemorate them. They are thinking of the other consciousnesses that will remember them and carry them onward. That&#039;s what we need to think--not whether God will welcome us as good and faithful servants, but whether other human consciousnesses that follow will say, &quot;Thank God he lived.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice point, Jarrod!</p>
<p>Somehow, Shakespeare constantly surfaces with this particular issue&#8211;&#8221;what dreams may come.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or I think of &#8220;To die, to sleep, perchance to dream&#8211;ah, there&#8217;s the rub.&#8221; When Hamlet says these words, he is contemplating suicide and is equating dying with sleeping&#8211;loss of consciousness. But then, what Hamlet fears is &#8220;perchance to dream.&#8221; There&#8217;s the rub. What if his actions on earth will haunt him throughout eternity?</p>
<p>At this point, I don&#8217;t think that what we do haunts us or rewards us throughout eternity. What we do haunts or rewards the people we leave behind. That&#8217;s an even greater responsibility. Our virtues and our sins reward or punish not one person but hundreds or thousands.</p>
<p>If the suicide bombers understood this, they would not be thinking of their seventy-two virgins. They would be wondering whether they were leaving Islam in a better state than they found it.</p>
<p>My great grandfather abandoned my grandfather when he was three. My grandfather was rasied by his maternal grandmother. He, then, married a dominant wife, and his son did, and I did&#8211;which means that what my great grandfather did in 1905 is still resonating to the third or fourth generation. His sin&#8211;abandoning his family&#8211;was not paid out by Satan in hell. It was paid out and continues to be paid out in the flesh and consciousness of all the creatures that have descended from him.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a moment in Lord of the Rings when Frodo and Sam are marching into Mordor, facing certain death, and they console themselves thinking of the songs and stories that others will create to commemorate them. They are thinking of the other consciousnesses that will remember them and carry them onward. That&#8217;s what we need to think&#8211;not whether God will welcome us as good and faithful servants, but whether other human consciousnesses that follow will say, &#8220;Thank God he lived.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrod</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrobertking.com/?p=343#comment-922</guid>
		<description>Interesting notion Rob - you mentioned that death may be like going to sleep and not waking up.  Do you suspect there will be some version of a &#039;dream&#039; afterwards, a-la &quot;What Dreams May Come&quot;, where our &#039;afterlife&#039; may be shaped by our conscious and sub-conscious, but some thread of &#039;us&#039; remains?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting notion Rob &#8211; you mentioned that death may be like going to sleep and not waking up.  Do you suspect there will be some version of a &#8216;dream&#8217; afterwards, a-la &#8220;What Dreams May Come&#8221;, where our &#8216;afterlife&#8217; may be shaped by our conscious and sub-conscious, but some thread of &#8216;us&#8217; remains?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob King</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My grandfather died twenty years ago, and I still miss him. I can hear his laugh, see him shake his head, hear his stories. In a way, part of his consciousness is preserved in my own--as an echo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My grandfather died twenty years ago, and I still miss him. I can hear his laugh, see him shake his head, hear his stories. In a way, part of his consciousness is preserved in my own&#8211;as an echo.</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis</title>
		<link>http://jrobertking.com/2010/06/the-ultimate-question/comment-page-1/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 01:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrobertking.com/?p=343#comment-918</guid>
		<description>All this time I thought he was my grandfather. I miss him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this time I thought he was my grandfather. I miss him.</p>
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